[KF5] for developers


don’t get me wrong, I’m fully fond of having KDE4 as main desktop (still), but I lately started porting one of my applications to KF5.

My question here is rather (I’m on holidays and not at home, so I don’t want to destroy my system :D):
[]What happens if I add KUbuntu-Next? Will that work, or will that give me a hard time? (In my understanding it should be safe, since you have the same packaging bugs as (K)Ubuntu has, in example for qtcreator).
]Will I be able to install just KF5 without Plasma5?
[*]If not, is there any possibility to do that (except for compiling from source)?

Kind regards,

As far as I know, KF5/Plasma 5 can not be installed at the same time as KDE SC 4.
Anex on the Manjaro team isn’t having any packaging issues that I’m aware of.
What issues are they having over at the Kubuntu project?

I do know that Plasma5 has dropped support for the old systay API’s like xembed, etc. this meant that QT4 had to be patched so that QT4 based applications that support and use appindicator’s will work under Plasma 5.

Here is the forum thread for the Manjaro 0.9.0 development release ISO’s:

Could you please try it out Live and/or in a VM and let me know what you think?

I’m talking about the kubuntu version :wink: … I know Manjaro isn’t the issue.

As I know, KF5 can be installed besides kdelibs4 (maybe in different directories, think Archlinux had it for some time in /opt, so did KUbuntu for some time).

There is no packaging issue, rather a repository issue for KF5, I think none except the kubuntu-next exists to just install frameworks5.

The issue for (K)Ubuntu QtCreator is a different topic and was just pulled out to strenghten why I believe the packages should be “compatible” to netrunner, but the bug is simple: missing dependencies, exists a long time now, but obviously nobody ever felt like fixing it (see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtcreator/+bug/1345104) - the bug goes back to debian I think.

I don’t want to use Plasma5 (yet), since I still had too many issues with it (-next version of KUbuntu and Archlinux - still having freezes and crashes), but I do want KF5 installed for development.

Oh OK, I understand completely.

The only reason I suggested the Manjaro live Dev ISO for testing is that Anex has done a lot of work on it that isn’t even available in Arch yet, and has compiled and updated a lot of packages from git, etc., he has created a temporary repository called KF5apps for these packages to be tested before they get moved to the official Manjaro repositories. Anex has also worked with the Arch package maintainers on some other things, like the QT4 patch as well. I have found it to be very stable myself and we could always use more testers and input.

Well, I personally had many issues with Manjaro in the past, why I usually picked Arch directly over Manjaro (did use Arch from 2003 to 2011, and used Chakra and later KUbuntu and sometimes Arch if I grew frustrated with those two :D).

Also there have been many features missing in the past, and a lot of manual work anyway (/home encryption, LVM), so I could directly use Arch and it hardly made any difference except that I had to execute some basic console commands more :D.

As I said above, I’m on holidays / not at home, and I basically didn’t want to buy a USB stick and setup the computer completely fresh here, especially since the internet connection in hotels in Miami seems to be the worst I ever had anywhere (tremendously slow and kicks every few minutes). Besides that, I didn’t want Plasma5, since it did crash and freeze too often on me (though, I can’t tell about the recent Qt patches introduced, since a lot of those crashes were inside the Qt framework).

No Problems, I don’t install development ISO’s to my production hardware myself, and even though I do have a test computer for such things these I just download and test an a live DVD/USB.

PS. As a Floridian myself, let me welcome you to the sunshine state. :slight_smile:

Thank you, enjoying my first two days already (Miami is great, but HUGE, so huge that I had to rent a car to get to Aventura Mall… not used to that from Vienna). It’s more fun developing in the sun and cool down in the sea or pool from time to time than in Austria at -5° Celsius :D.

Any hint for a mobile data plan if I only need it for two weeks? T-Mobile or AT&T (only from net coverage, or is that no issue in cities like Miami).

But you see the dilemma, I do have a production system (only, this 5 year old hardware is the only system I have), but it does not make sense as a development machine for porting wihtout KF5 installed somewhere (and I don’t need plasma5 for KF5) :D. Wonder how all the other guys who ported their applications already did it - maybe they’re running Plasma5 installations already though.

Depending on what software will be included in the next kubuntu based versions, I might switch to the Manjaro based version anyway, since I grow tired of things like ever-outdated Qt (especially since I need things of 5.3, and netrunner still runs 5.2, currently using a seperate qt installation to get 5.3 for development).

I’ve had no problems lately here, Manjaro has come a long way since the first public release of version 0.8.0, especially with encryption, LVM and UEFI support, Thus has been a great installer and Callimaries is proving to be a great replacement already, even though there are still a few features missing that they are working on. I actually started using Manjaro when it was still in closed development and still used the Arch repositories prior to boxit, I think it was around version 1.2 that I started using it.

There should be no issues with coverage, in Miami,. You could give Ting a look?
Here is what Ting offers: flat rate, no service contracts, you pay for only what you need or use, and it’s on the Sprint Nation Wide Network: https://ting.com/

Well, as you can imagine, with a laptop that age, UEFI is not really a topic (it is with a certain machine I have at home which is my small home file server & OwnCloud, which only supports UEFI, but that one runs centos and will continue to do so :D), it’s some kind of small-box without active cooling and 2gb ram, sufficient for a private contact backup).

I know there is going on a lot of progress, but for some reason I do have the idea that there are split efforts. Calamares I did even checkout (I am the idiot who is partically responsible for Tribe in Charka, so I do have “some” knowledge about installers … and I’m responsible for the partitioning and UEFI not working :smiley: … was a mistake, didn’t understand GPT and UEFI properly), but stil too many features missing, no installer without /home encryption in my house (usually, for a “convenient” distribution, because “home” i want to protect, don’t you want to protect your home? :D. If you’re on the security list of the US as I am obviously, learned that when I traveled here now, that gives you some nice talks with TSA :D). I just couldn’t convince myself to dig in deep enough and yet again work on an installer (which sucks with virtual testing without hardware reference, especially considering UEFI). Though, I do have a lot of hope in Calamares to be an “installer framework” of some kind, even if they deny it, but the current design allows pretty easy adoption, graphically and command whise.

For the mobile plan, thanks for the hint, I found one I like now :).

I can’t remember if Thus will encrypt just the home partition or if it will only encrypt the whole drive, I’ve always done all of my encryption post Install, I guess I’ll have to look at it again.

Anyway, there is not really a split effort, Thus was a fork of Cnchi (the Antergos Installer) and is still the current Installer for Manjaro 0.8.11, for the Manjaro 0.9.0 release Calamares is expected to be the new installer. Calamares is actually a joint effort between Manjaro, Bluesystems (Netrunner), Maui, Chakra, KaOS, and Others. to create a modular, plugin, and QT based installer framework that is distribution independent.

I did inspect the code already, and no, it does no /home encryption. I even had the localization and keyboard selection done before the original installer, but for some reason I never got in touch with merge requests. But that’s a part even the Ubuntu installer (ubiquity) fails :smiley: … because selecting an encrypted /home it tires to set up an encrypted swap space with a password of a root encryption which does not exist ;-).

For a reference, I’m the idiot mostly responsible for UEFI/GPT and the Tribe (Chakra Installer) partition not working, which was a personal mistunderstanding of how UEFI and GPT partitioning works ;-).

I swore myself I’d never get into an installer project where I can’t get a live cd or VirtualBox image where i can checkout and test again (so -dev packages need to be there). A testing cycle of an hour isn’t favourable, and that’s what I had to do on Chakra with Tribe, all the time install a new system, and try the installer. As a note: I’m not the “creat ISO” guy, I have no clue how to do that.

Yes, all of the latest Manjaro 0.9.0 development ISO’s use calamares:

As does the KaOS ISO 2014.12:

I don’t know this guy but here are some video previews:

Manjaro 0.9.0 dev-1224 Plasma 5 KDE ISO.

KaOS 2014.12 Plasma 4 KDE

KaOS kf5 2014.12.16 Plasma 5 KDE

I do know all that. though, I still didn’t decide to get involved. And I have no intention until I’m at home again :wink: … sorry. KaOS is for me a no-go for not featuring i386 packages (I need i386 compatibility, what ever they claim about being “modern”, in my business it’s necessary, and that’s my money :-).

I’ll check the rest though when I’m back in Vienna. Still no intention to take harsh steps on my holidays.

I didn’t mean to seem like a pest, I never intended for you to do anything while you were on holiday, I was just making a suggestion. That I why I posted these 3 videos for you to watch, just so that you to see how stable Plasma 5 is getting without needing do anything. :slight_smile:

I also agree that KaOS is not for me either. I still have a couple of 32bit only computers sitting around here, however they are running Enlightenment as I do dabble with that as well.

Did I forgot to mention that some of the Fedora developers have also joined the Calamares development team?
Interesting isn’t it, lol. :smiley: